just wondering if one of our insiders knows if the rmx and steel can handle 14-bit midi messages.
No, they are not.
Do you know of any specific applications that require such messages ?
Hello Sedor,
DJ Control Steel and DJ Console Rmx send 7-bit Control Changes (MIDI commands on 128 steps, from 0 to 127), but any software supporting 14-bit CC commands also supports 7-bit CC commands (otherwhise they would have compatibility issues with most hardware).
Serato Scratch Live and Serato Itch support both 7-bit and 14-bit MIDI messages, as written in Serato Scratch Live manual (
) page 16.
Torq also supports 7-bit messages, as Traktor, VirtualDJ, Live and other DJ software.
Hello Sedor,
DJ Control Steel and DJ Console Rmx send 7-bit Control Changes (MIDI commands on 128 steps, from 0 to 127), but any software supporting 14-bit CC commands also supports 7-bit CC commands (otherwhise they wouldbe compatible with nothing).
Serato Scratch Live and Serato Itch support both 7-bit and14-bit MIDI messages, as written in Serato Scratch Live manual (
) page 16.
Torq also supports 7-bit messages, as Traktor, VirtualDJ, Live and other DJ software.
DJ Phatso -- The upcoming Traktor Pro 1.0.3 update adds support for 14-bit MIDI CC messages. Not required at all however.
Maxdjack - thanks. 14-bit CC messages gives the user more precise jog wheel control, particularly for scratching. Was crossing my fingers that the RMX could handle such with a firmware update.
Hello Sedor,
I agree 14-bit CC messages can give a more precise control than 7-bit, but
- I see 14-bit MIDI message advantage only for potentiometers (faders or rotary potentiometers), as a 14-bit resolution provides up to 16384 steps on the potentiometer run, while a 7-bit resolution provides only 128 steps on the potentiometer run, so having more steps gives indeed a more precise control,
- I see no advantage in 14-bit MIDI message compared to 7-bit MIDI messages for jog wheels or rotary encoders, since jog-wheels and encoders have unlimited runs, so they only send increments (the absolute value of a position is useless, what is important is how precisely the position changes are reflected in the MIDI increment command), with no Min and Max position, and their resolution is not linked to the size of the MIDI Control Change since the manufacturer of the jog-wheel can map 128 steps (=1 CC message of 7-bit) on a complete circular run, but he can also map 128 steps on each degree of rotation (=1CC message of 7 bit), so 360 degree x 128 steps = 46080 steps on a full circular run, which makes a 360 times higher resolution still with 7-bit CC messages.
Hello Sedor,
I agree 14-bit CC messages can give a more precise control than 7-bit, but
- I see 14-bit MIDI message advantage only for potentiometers (faders or rotary potentiometers), as a 14-bit resolution provides up to 16384 steps on the potentiometer run, while a 7-bit resolution provides only 128 steps on the potentiometer run, so having more steps gives indeed a more precise control,
- I see no advantage in 14-bit MIDI message compared to 7-bit MIDI messages for jog wheels or rotary encoders, since jog-wheels and encoders have unlimited runs, so they only send increments (the absolute value of a position is useless, what is important is how precisely the position changes are reflected in the MIDI increment command), with no Min and Max position, and their resolution is not linked to the size of the MIDI Control Change since the manufacturer of the jog-wheel can map 128 steps (=1 CC message of 7-bit) on a complete circular run, but he can also map 128 steps on each degree of rotation (=1CC message of 7 bit), so 360 degree x 128 steps = 46080 steps on a full circular run, which makes a 360 times higher resolution still with 7-bit CC messages.
Very, very interesting - that is very much a higher resolution than 14-bit MIDI. Is this what the RMX does by default or at all? And if so, does this imply that the RMX's jog wheels will favorably compare to a controller that has native 14-bit support on its jogs?
Here is an example of what I am wondering if the RMX is capable of -->
Very accurate scratching. 
Hello Sedor,
The jog-wheels on the Console Rmx have 128 steps per circular run, they have not 46080 steps or 16384 steps on 360 degrees, and I don't think one can extend this number of steps as 128 steps per 360 degrees run is the accuracy of the sensors in the jog wheels. Sorry for the misunderstanding, there are not 40K steps per 360 degrees run on DJ Console Rmx run, I only wrote this explanation to show the resolution of the jog wheels is not related to the size of the MIDI message.
I don't know the accuracy of the sensors in VCI-300 jog wheels, but, as VCI-300 jog wheels have a larger diameter than DJ Console Rmx jog-wheels, it is easier to scratch on VCI 300 jog wheels than on DJ Console Rmx jog wheels (as it is easier to scratch on 12'' discs than on 7'' discs on the same turntable).
Good info once again. This is the kind of background info that manufacturers should make more readily available so that people can make more informed purchase decisions.
I'm not much of a scratch artist but love this kind of low-level technical info. As it is, I can use Traktor's Gater effect over some FX samples that I have to get a really cool sounding scratch-like effect with the jogs.
Hello Sedohr,
You can see someone scratching on the Rmx on
.
no, they are not.
do you know of any specific applications that require such messages ?
hello sedor,
dj control steel and dj console rmx send 7-bit control changes (midi commands on 128 steps, from 0 to 127), but any software supporting 14-bit cc commands also supports 7-bit cc commands (otherwhise they would have compatibility issues with most hardware).
serato scratch live and serato itch support both 7-bit and 14-bit midi messages, as written in serato scratch live manual (
) page 16.
torq also supports 7-bit messages, as traktor, virtualdj, live and other dj software.
hello sedor,
dj control steel and dj console rmx send 7-bit control changes (midi commands on 128 steps, from 0 to 127), but any software supporting 14-bit cc commands also supports 7-bit cc commands (otherwhise they wouldbe compatible with nothing).
serato scratch live and serato itch support both 7-bit and14-bit midi messages, as written in serato scratch live manual (
) page 16.
torq also supports 7-bit messages, as traktor, virtualdj, live and other dj software.
dj phatso -- the upcoming traktor pro 1.0.3 update adds support for 14-bit midi cc messages. not required at all however.
maxdjack - thanks. 14-bit cc messages gives the user more precise jog wheel control, particularly for scratching. was crossing my fingers that the rmx could handle such with a firmware update.
hello sedor,
i agree 14-bit cc messages can give a more precise control than 7-bit, but
- i see 14-bit midi message advantage only for potentiometers (faders or rotary potentiometers), as a 14-bit resolution provides up to 16384 steps on the potentiometer run, while a 7-bit resolution provides only 128 steps on the potentiometer run, so having more steps gives indeed a more precise control,
- i see no advantage in 14-bit midi message compared to 7-bit midi messages for jog wheels or rotary encoders, since jog-wheels and encoders have unlimited runs, so they only send increments (the absolute value of a position is useless, what is important is how precisely the position changes are reflected in the midi increment command), with no min and max position, and their resolution is not linked to the size of the midi control change since the manufacturer of the jog-wheel can map 128 steps (=1 cc message of 7-bit) on a complete circular run, but he can also map 128 steps on each degree of rotation (=1cc message of 7 bit), so 360 degree x 128 steps = 46080 steps on a full circular run, which makes a 360 times higher resolution still with 7-bit cc messages.
hello sedor,
i agree 14-bit cc messages can give a more precise control than 7-bit, but
- i see 14-bit midi message advantage only for potentiometers (faders or rotary potentiometers), as a 14-bit resolution provides up to 16384 steps on the potentiometer run, while a 7-bit resolution provides only 128 steps on the potentiometer run, so having more steps gives indeed a more precise control,
- i see no advantage in 14-bit midi message compared to 7-bit midi messages for jog wheels or rotary encoders, since jog-wheels and encoders have unlimited runs, so they only send increments (the absolute value of a position is useless, what is important is how precisely the position changes are reflected in the midi increment command), with no min and max position, and their resolution is not linked to the size of the midi control change since the manufacturer of the jog-wheel can map 128 steps (=1 cc message of 7-bit) on a complete circular run, but he can also map 128 steps on each degree of rotation (=1cc message of 7 bit), so 360 degree x 128 steps = 46080 steps on a full circular run, which makes a 360 times higher resolution still with 7-bit cc messages.
very, very interesting - that is very much a higher resolution than 14-bit midi. is this what the rmx does by default or at all? and if so, does this imply that the rmxs jog wheels will favorably compare to a controller that has native 14-bit support on its jogs?
here is an example of what i am wondering if the rmx is capable of -->
very accurate scratching.
hello sedor,
the jog-wheels on the console rmx have 128 steps per circular run, they have not 46080 steps or 16384 steps on 360 degrees, and i dont think one can extend this number of steps as 128 steps per 360 degrees run is the accuracy of the sensors in the jog wheels. sorry for the misunderstanding, there are not 40k steps per 360 degrees run on dj console rmx run, i only wrote this explanation to show the resolution of the jog wheels is not related to the size of the midi message.
i dont know the accuracy of the sensors in vci-300 jog wheels, but, as vci-300 jog wheels have a larger diameter than dj console rmx jog-wheels, it is easier to scratch on vci 300 jog wheels than on dj console rmx jog wheels (as it is easier to scratch on 12 discs than on 7 discs on the same turntable).
